Treat the Patient, Not The Lab Measurement Numbers w/Scott Otey & John Fogerty from Summit Rejuvenation Centers

Feb. 19, 2019

Many patients and even physicians are so hung up on getting to what they consider the perfect testosterone number that they miss the whole point: wellness. What is driving doctors’ obsession with the number, and why does it have a lot to do with insurance? Why are AIs harmful to optimized patients? Why is patient feedback so crucial?

On this episode, I’m joined by the co-founders of Summit Rejuvenation Centers, Scott Otey & John Fogerty, to talk about how they are blazing the trail in optimization.

You can’t make your patients feel good when you’re billing them through insurance because you can’t even get them to an optimized level. -John Fogerty

Three Takeaways

• In the absence of any symptoms or side effects, stay on the same course of treatment. Don’t use numbers to determine the action that needs to be taken.
• The best people in optimization are able to bridge the bodybuilding, performance, and fitness world with the clinical science.
• It’s so crucial to document and do case studies that demonstrate and support our treatment protocols and how they are working. It will protect us legally.
• Even if you use AIs for symptom resolution for people who over-aromatize, it still causes harm.

At the start of the show, Scott and John shared their backstory and how they got started. Next we talked about the problem with testosterone pellet therapy, and why it’s impossible to titrate the dosage effectively with the delivery system. We discussed why traditional therapies just aren’t making sense anymore, the harm that comes with suppressing estrogen, and how this shows up in the health issues a lot of bodybuilders face.

We also discussed:

• The importance of treating on symptoms and feedback, not numbers
• How hard is it for women to get access to quality hormone optimization therapy  
• The power of bridging the gap between fitness and clinical science
• Why you can’t really help patients when you’re under insurance

So many men are trained on an understanding that there’s a number that corresponds to a level of happiness and acceptance, and this is driven by most non-optimization doctors. Doctors who are in the mainstream can’t really help their patients because insurance puts so much red tape on them. Therefore they feel like they are better off not treating people because they don’t want to end up losing the money they get from patients. Ultimately this drives men to be focused on their numbers and not their symptoms. This dooms them to stay in this tailspin until they work with an optimization physician who knows what they’re doing.