Hi Tami,
As a working psychotherapist who deals with individuals with trauma, I thought Mary Firestone had some valuable things to say. It was clear, though, that she doesn’t work (on an ongoing basis) individually with people with trauma histories, despite her education as a client.
Yes, that impressive PhD Holocaust survivor is doing well, but to say that you “choose” victimhood or survivor is dangerous. Most trauma survivors do well, and much of the reason the small percentage (I’ve seen a range of 7 - 9%, but would check) for people who don’t do well is due to ongoing interpersonal trauma. That is, usually, abusive parent(s). In addition, those of us lucky enough to have had more than one child know that some babies just are more sensitive, from day 1.
I’m very glad that Mary has gotten through her past trauma of sexual abuse, which can be extremely painful. AND (not but) if she had gone through that with abusive parenting, in poverty, she would have likely had a very different outcome.
I’m also glad that you brought up $ resources, and wish that you had done so earlier in the podcast. Yes to meditation, EMDR (tapping in), etc., (I would add yoga for trauma, IFS, TIST, and somatic work you can do on your own like the old progressive muscle relaxation) but she basically said that after years of therapy, it was her work with Ketamine and MDMR that provided her breakthrough. Ouch. $. Legality in some places.
Clearly this is a woman who has grown up with money and has always had it. Now she takes groups of affluent women to beautiful places, and no doubt does healing work. I’m not saying she doesn’t have a good heart, I’m saying that a focus on words like “choice” and “depersonalization” is dangerous to some people in the abstract.
Also, towards the end when you asked about how she deals with anxiety and overwhelm (common emotional trauma symptoms), she said, “I know it will pass” and takes psych drugs. Trauma therapists understand that drugs can be helpful, and sometimes life saving, but generally feel that our AMA culture has an over dependence on meds. We also, when uncomfortable feelings come up, generally ask our clients to sit with those feelings, if they can. If they can’t, we generally recommend that clients accept those feelings and use their bodies to comfort those parts (not just to shake them off).
It’s one thing to have a masters in Psychology, but a completely different experience to work for years with people doing their utmost to let go of trauma pain. For many clients, it doesn’t feel like any kind of “choice”. And for that reason, many of us don’t take clients to the Caribbean or start our own lines of perfume; many of us use expensive post graduate training to give clients who can’t afford years of therapy, or whose insurance companies only give them 12 sessions, much reduced sessions.
That’s spiritual.
Best Wishes, Susan Hanway, LICSW
